Chat Transcript: Making the most of Notre Dame's depth on defense
Eric Hansen: Welcome to Notre Dame Football Live Chat, post Blue-Gold Game edition.
We will be chatting next week after the NFL Draft has concluded and the spring transfer portal window closes.
Some quick programming notes:
► If you missed the last episode of our aspiring-to-be-viral Notre Dame Football YouTube show, Football Never Sleeps, it keeps its shelf life long after the live presentation. We’re back in our normal Monday at 7 ET time slot and will continue on after spring football ends. Remember, if you miss the live show, you can catch up anytime on YouTube. Also if you missed our Postgame Takeaways show Saturday evening after the Blue-Gold Game, you can catch up here.
More content
► Big boards and mock drafts: NFL projections for Notre Dame football players
► WBB | Notebook: Notre Dame WBB already dreaming big for next season
► Notre Dame football depth chart projection after Blue-Gold Game
► WBB: Guard KK Bransford makes transfer portal U-turn, returns to Notre Dame WBB
► Ranking Notre Dame football's post-spring Top 24 players for 2024
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► Tyler James and I remain in weekly podcast mode. On our most recent Inside ND Sports Podcast, Bob Morton, a former Notre Dame offensive lineman from 2002-06 and a director of regional development for the university, Tyler and me. Morton discussed his biggest takeaways from the Blue-Gold Game, his thoughts on the offensive line, how the offensive tackles can improve, who he likes on the Irish line, how good freshman quarterback CJ Carr looks, his expectations for QB Riley Leonard, the impact of a new football facility and more. The podcast can be listened to via SoundCloud or on your preferred podcast platform including: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Podbean and Pocket Casts.
► Finally, we’re spinning forward into the offseason for Notre Dame and into a big week for former Irish players in the NFL Draft at WSBT radio. And Darin Pritchett and I are together this week on Wednesday and Thursday on Weekday SportsBeat (960 AM, live streaming at wsbtradio.com). The weekday shows run from 5-6 p.m. ET. You can download episodes as podcasts.
As far as this week's chat …
Please include your NAME and HOMETOWN along with your question(s).
Here are the rules:
Eric Hansen: Off we go ...
Len from the Jersey Shore: Hello Eric! The roster continues to turn. The D line rotates players. The LB corps also rotates players. How often does ND rotate its corners? Or safeties for that matter? In the rotational order would D line be the most, followed by LB's and then DB's? Is that because of the implication of missed assignments? Tell us what you can about defensive player rotation as an additional way for us to understand the seriousness of two CB's leaving the program.
Eric Hansen: Hi Len. Notre Dame rotations will evolve season to season based on a number of factors. The position group where it's most common beyond ND is defensive line. The rationale there is you can wear down opposing offensive lines by rotating in fresh bodies. The key is having minimal drop-off when the 2s come in or even the 3s. Notre Dame is well-positioned here in 2024.
The rotations are less common at the linebacker and defensive back positions universally in that teams will use extra linebackers or extra DBs in certain packages or in niche roles. Notre Dame does that too, but this year the glut of athleticism in the linebacker corps and so many camera-ready young LBs gives ND the option to rotate at that position group more as well as fill niche and package roles. At safety, talent/experience generally dictates how much rotation ND plays beyond the starters and package players. In 2022, there was more rotation than in 2023. In 2024, young players like Adon Shuler and Luke Talich make a deeper rotation attractive.
At cornerback, it's hard to take Ben Morrison off the field. ND feels very good about Christian Gray and Jaden Mickey ... and if they bring in a transfer for No. 4, I think you may see a little more rotation this year. Certainly both Mickey and Gray will play a lot beyond Morrison. As to the CBs leaving, I don't consider it serious. When you are over the 85-man scholarship limit, someone has to leave to make the math work. More players will leave in the coming days/weeks. Some will be added. This is college football in 2024.
Jules from Joliet, Ill.: Good day, sir. What is the latest on Tyson Ford’s situation? Also, how is Aiden Gobaira progressing from his injury? When healthy, where does he project on the depth chart? Thanks for conducting these chats.
Eric Hansen: Hi Jules. Thanks for being a part of the chats. Tyson Ford is still pondering his future. He missed the last week or so of spring practice to do so. His mom did post some pics of herself with him at ND on Blue-Gold Game weekend with Tyson decked out in ND gear. So we'll see what he does here in the next six days while the portal is still open. ... Aiden Gobaira is a really talented defensive end with a nice burst and a relentless motor. He was undersized when he got to ND then missed all of last season because of a torn ACL sustained in August.
Once healthy, he has the talent to climb the depth chart, but man he's got competition. RJ Oben, Josh Burnham and freshman prodigy Bryce Young are all ahead of him now. So I an neither minimizing his potential or the crowded path to reach it.
Chuck F from Westfield, Ind.: Hi Eric, is ND still recruiting Jack Lange? Is he going to be visiting campus? Heard his dad was a big fan, thanks for all the time you share with us bringing the latest and best ND news, chuck
Eric Hansen: Jack Lange, a four star offensive tackle from Eureka, Mo., will soon announce his college decision, and Tyler James among others are predicting a commitment to Missouri.
Ryan from Mars, Pa.: Good afternoon Eric What do You Think of about Play of CJ Carr in the blue gold game i liked the way he played GO IRISH ☘️☘️🏈🏈
Eric Hansen: Hi Ryan, if complemented very well what the media saw in a scrimmage closed to the public the previous Saturday, where the conditions were more similar to what we'd see in a game in the fall. And that is, Carr is impressive. Very impressive in the progress he's made so far since arriving. Very poised. Uses his feet well to extend plays and keep his eyes down the field. Very accurate in his throws. A lot to like.
Bob from Oxnard, Calif.: At the start of fall camp, do you think Amil Wagner will get some reps with the 1s at LT? Thanks!
Eric Hansen: Hi Bob. He worked at both sides during spring. If ND doesn't add a tackle from the portal, I still think he competes to be the starting RT (a competition I think he will eventually win) and then Tosh Baker becomes the primary backup on both sides, with Sullivan Absher the fourth option.
Matt from Salem, Ore.: I was shocked by Micah Bell in portal. Thought he had a path in time, maybe older players would enter. Was it a surprise to you? I worry about young players with potential leaving.
John from Elkhorn, Neb.: Hey Eric - interested for your take on the Micah Bell transfer. From what I’ve read it seemed like he was on the rise and highly regarded. Thanks!
Eric Hansen: Let me do these two together since they're related ... Not shocked at all a cornerback left, given that ND is trying to add one from the portal (Rice's Tre'shon Devones), but I would not have guessed Bell would be the one. Where we are with college football, with unlimited transfers and no waiting, it's hard to sell patience. And if Devones eventually picks ND, Bell would not have been in the top four this season as a sophomore. For Matt, young players with potential are going to leave programs. It's just where we are. ND tries to minimize that on its roster through its recruiting approach and being transparent with its players and having constant discussions about where they stands. I think that's all you can ask from the coaching staff.
Len from the Jersey Shore: Eric, that was an amazing answer. To the point and concise but full of the most pertinent information Thanks!!!!!
Eric Hansen: Thanks, Len!
The Beave from Grand Rapids, Mich.: Reading last week’s chat after-the fact, I was pleasantly surprised to see you predict the 2024 ND Defense as a “top 3” in college football in a passing reference in an answer. For someone not prone to hyperbole and measured in response, this is enormously high praise. (The term I recall from Journalism 101 is “Burying the Lead”). Can you expound on what gives rise to that prediction and which level of the D you believe to be the strength? Is it something we haven’t seen yet like the grad transfer at safety combining with X Watts? The emerging stars at Linebacker? Or the D line depth? Looking forward to the possibilities if this plays out and ND Nation hopes you’re right.
Eric Hansen: Hi The Beave. I will try to streamline my answer. This is a defense with star power and depth at every position group. This is as deep and athletic as I've seen ND's linebackers in a long, long time. They've gotten some spring surprises of the pleasant variety in guys like Adon Shuler, Luke Talich, Boubacar Traore, Jaiden Ausberry, even a down-the-depth chart guy in freshman Sean Sevillano Jr. really surging in the spring. BARRING injury, where are the holes? Where the Irish had room for improvement as a defense off the first one to finish in the top five nationally in four decades was consistent run defense against good running teams. Clemson and Louisville both had their way. I think this year's personnel will handle that aspect of the defense better.
Kagan from Angola, Ind.: Happy Wednesday to you Eric, long time reader first time poster, I just wanted to get your thoughts; after the scrimmage two Saturdays ago and the Blue and Gold game last Saturday, do you think our O-line is as much of a liability as some are saying? Or was it more a product of getting split up and maybe some chemistry issues? Also I think our defensive line is really deep and talented and that should allow the old coaching adage iron sharpens iron. Finally, coming out of the spring did any of the lineman help their cause? I thought Rocco played pretty well in the blue and gold game. Thank you for doing these. They make for a really interesting read and insights!
Eric Hansen: Hi Kagan, thanks for taking the plunge with your first questions. I hope I can match the quality with my answers. I'm not sure I'd use the term liability at this juncture with the offensive line as much as I'd say it's ND's biggest unknown four months from the start of the season as well as its biggest project. If you have time, I'd really recommend you listening to this week's podcast with former Irish offensive lineman Bob Morton as our guest. He really breaks down the nuances of what has happened and what needs to happen and how Mike Denbrock's hiring as OC is part of the solution.
The defensive front seven and all of its many looks and pressures tested the O-line relentlessly -- much more than it did in the Blue-Gold game, where it was essentially defanged largely. I haven't isolated on Rocco Spindler enough yet to answer your last one, but what I can say is many of our readers agree with that observation AND more importantly, there's an expectation this summer and into camp, when he's fully healthy, that he will have a good chance to win a starting job. I think the two projected starters who helped themselves the most this spring were C Ashton Craig and Right Guard Billy Schrauth.
Mark from Boston: Hello Eric! Mini rant regarding Reggie Bush getting his Heisman trophy back … he broke the rules while the rules were in place. I totally disagree with the decision to return the trophy to Bush. Where’s the accountability?
Eric Hansen: Hi Mark. My question for you is would you feel differently if the NCAA opted to give Notre Dame back its vacated wins?
J Buck from San Diego: Hello, from Sunny 75 degree San Diego. 😜 Anyways, enough small talk, I was pleasantly surprised at the all around quality of play at the Blue Gold game. I think with the mixed O-line, we didn't get a great representation, thoughts? Also, looks like we might be going to the portal for another DB, and which QB do you think will transfer? I think they could all start for a team. I don't see them all staying, it would be awesome, but not seeing it. Anyways, I know I tossed in a couple extra q's, but I wouldn't do it if I thought you couldn't handle it. 😃THANKS, THANKS and THANKS.
Eric Hansen: J Buck, you LIVELY MINX. I see your reverse psychology or forward psychology there at the end. Whatever it is, it worked. And really, 17 parts is the breaking point for me when it comes to questions. Yes, splitting up the lines profoundly affected their cohesion and chemistry. However, in the closed scrimmage the week prior they were not split up and still had some (not all) of the same issues, particularly with pass rush vs. the No. 1 tackles. ... Yes ND would like to add Rice CB Tre'shon Devones. ... Not predicting which QB transfers, but really the only two in play would be the two in the middle, right?
ND Harvey from South Philly, Pa: E, it’s been a while, hope all is well. If the season started this Saturday, who would be your starting Offense Tackles. Thank you. Go Irish
Eric Hansen: Without adding from the portal, my starters would be Aamil Wager and Charles Jagusah ... and thanks for jumping on today.
Marie from Atlanta: Hi Eric, I hope you’re having a great week and enjoyed the blue goal game. Were you surprised by Micah Bell entering the transfer portal, and do you have any insights into the transfer? After watching the O line this weekend on a scale of 1 to 10 how confident are you that Joe Rudolph can put together a high-level offensive line for the 2024 season? As it seems that overall, Wagner is the most athletic of the three tackles, perhaps in the distant future do you see a time where if Wagner can reach his potential he would play left tackle and Jagusah would move to right tackle? Finally, as a group overall this spring, were the freshman, more talented, less talented, or about as talented as you expected? Thanks for hosting the chat, please keep them coming during the long offseason.
Eric Hansen: Hi Marie. Having a great week and if we go out to dinner in Atlanta, I am on board with your idea of putting Tyler James as the kids' table as punishment for questioning one of your questions. ... I already addressed Bell, so let's go on to your O-Line question. I'd put that at a 7. Why? My pessimism comes from potentially having five new starters. Rudolph has a nice track record of development, but it's not at ND -- yet. And sometimes O-Lineman need to cook in the oven and there's not way to microwave their progress/development and that's a bit concerning. On the upside, Bob Morton pointed this out in our podcast, having an OC like Mike Denbrock helps the O-line and Rudolph in so many ways. I also like the raw talent of the line and really like Rudolph's history at Wisconsin with less-touted prospects developing into NFL-caliber players.
Not sure about flipping Wagner and Jagusah down the road. It's not a crazy concept to me. Will have a better answer in August. ... I had high expectations for the freshman class — and 8 of them are still to come in June — and I'd say they slightly exceeded them ... and CJ Carr really exceeded them.
Mike from Rochester, N.Y.: Hi, Eric!!! Excellent podcast with Bob Morton, he seems to always have great insights to share. CMF has built an incredibly strong staff that seems to be working very well together. How would you compare them to the best staffs that Brian Kelly and Lou Holtz had ( I think we can ignore the Davie and Willingham staffs)?
Eric Hansen: Hi Mike. I get this question more than you'd think ... and actually Bob Davie did have some really good assistants (not universally, but some good ones). What I can say definitively is that the coordinators are the best I can remember since the Holtz Era (where Lou was actually the real offensive coordinator at times). You think about him paired up with Barry Alvarez at D-Coordinator for instance. And there's a lot to like in the position coaching ranks, both on the field and as recruiters. Denbrock was OC a couple of his years under Kelly, but he was paired with Brian VanGorder those years ... and I think this version of Denbrock is superior to that one.
Bob Gorman from Oak Park, Ill.: Thanks for all your great content and keeping us up to the minute. Given the concerns about our OTs controlling the Texas A&M DEs, how do you evaluate the skill set of our RBs to block or chip them to give our QB a fighting chance? We have had some excellent blocking backs in the past. Will the current group match up?
Eric Hansen: Hi Bob, nice to hear from you and thank you. Going into spring Gi'Bran Payne was the guy you could count on in that group. Coming out of spring, I'd at least add Jeremiyah Love to that list and probably Jadarian Price as well. If Aneyas Williams and Kedren Young, the latter of whom was injured most of spring, can do it consistently, that's how they can earn more playing time in a crowded RB room. So to summarize, I think there's been a collective improvement over last season.
Jack from Strongsville, Ohio: Hi Eric. Went to the Blue Gold game. Thanks for the tip on getting their early due to the other events on campus. Worked out well except for the cold weather. As you and Tyler said on Football Never Sleeps this is the best group of QBs at ND in a long time if ever. This brings a possible portal transfer out into play. My question is why not recruit a qb such as a 3 star who would like to come to a major program like ND, get an education and serve as a backup/ scout team qb. Is that unrealistic in today's environment? Ara use to recruit 5-6 QBs and they would eventually find spots at other positions. Thanks for all your great work.
Eric Hansen: Hi Jack and I'm glad my advice was helpful. I wish I could have helped with the weather. I don't think your concept is an unworkable one, necessarily, but I'm not sure how many of them actually exist that would want to do that with no hope of EVER climbing the depth chart and how it would help your other QBs get better by pushing them. ND has had players who kind of looked like that walking in the door, and some of them have ended up being starters ... Tommy Rees and Ian Book, to name a couple. And some end up transferring anyway. Keep in mind, Steve Angeli was a three star, too, and I don't think he wants to run the scout team at this point in his career. Even before the portal era, ND had a long history of QB transfers. And yes during Ara's reign and even much later, QBs changed positions willingly and some very well ... Arnaz Battle, Carlyle Holiday, Gary Godsey, Jared Clark among them. Again with the transfer portal, I think we'll see less of that anywhere, including ND.
John from Scottsdale, Ariz.: Hi Eric. Compliments on the excellent series on the new AD. Great work. You have now observed coach Freemen through 3 Springs and 2 full seasons. We’ve heard plenty on his many strengths as a coach. What do you view as his weaknesses that he still needs to work on?
Eric Hansen: Hi John. I'd say standing on the table for the creation of a media appreciation parking lot for practice days ... I kid ... Last year the two most pronounced were gameday operations and in-game decisions. I feel like those have been addressed, but we won't know until we see actual games this fall. Personally, I am optimistic about where Freeman is headed as a head coach.
Doug from Raleigh, N.C.: .Quoting Frank Vitovitch at UHND.com, “Notre Dame has an excellent problem on its hands right now” in its quarterback room. To not lose anyone to the transfer portal, any talk to beefing up the receiver corps short-term with backup, sure-handed quarterbacks?
Eric Hansen: Hi Doug. I don't know Frank, so I'll assume you are quoting him correctly and then just quote myself for the answer. The WR corps has 11 bodies with 6-7 max making the rotation, so unless they're all going cliff-diving during the May break, I think they're pretty beefy as is.
John from Chatham, NJ: Eric-Huge fan of yours and Tyler's and thanks for all the great coverage. Supposed to get near 70 degrees today in NJ, so I may have bare feet by the time you read this!! My apologies!! I have 2 questions for you: What would your preseason prediction be for ND overall if Alt and Fisher HAD come back? Realize it is not anything near reality, but was curious. It seems like they have high end talent and depth almost everywhere with O Line being the big question mark. Secondly, regarding the transfer portal, how active are agents in seeking out the highest bidder for certain players? A well regarded player has someone reach out on their behalf and says "I am willing to come to your school for $xyz? Do we think this is pervasive at this point? Thanks.
Eric Hansen: Hi John. Thanks for the compliments and the weather report. We are supposed to get to 51 today. So if this were golf and not spring weather, WE would be winning. ... If Alt AND Fisher had come back, maybe that would be a case of ND's floor running into its ceiling. Wow, that would make a world of difference. Your second question is really good, but I hesitate to walk too far down that road with you. Here's why. There is SO MUCH misinformation in this area, I don't want to add to it. So many times some scattered anecdotal info is extrapolated into a trend when it might really be isolated. I don't doubt your scenario has happened and the reverse being true as well ... schools recruiting players off other teams' rosters.
Where I use my limited bandwidth is gauging on how Notre Dame fits into that world. Can it compete where those scenarios exist? And so far, I would say, yes they can.
Don from Scottsdale: Eric, thanks for all the great spring coverage. I enjoy reading about the other sports. Right amount of coverage. Riley Leonard was injured all preseason, or so it seemed. Have you seen him in a live practice? I know he has the size, athletic ability and experience but is he as accurate as Carr? Not suggesting Carr should jump the depth chart but seems to me Angeli and Minchey are pretty good. I've heard there are a million reasons why he came....is he worth it. By the way I know a big booster for Nebraska. He tells me Dylan Raiola got a $3.5M NIL. Pretty sure he has to play to get it but amazing money is out there.
Eric Hansen: Hi Don, and thanks. First thought. I think the enthusiasm for Riley Leonard being on the roster is tamped down by Sam Hartman not being a part of a playoff team, which was affected to some extent by having an inexperienced offensive coordinator who didn't have a counterpunch in big games. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad place for Leonard to be, with needing to prove himself over breathless infatuation. Second thought ... Yes I have seen Riley Leonard without a brace or a boot on one practice .. the first one, on March 7. I also saw him play ND last September while at Duke and in Duke's upset win over Clemson at the start of last season.
I had heard so much about his upside, that was part of the reason I watched the Clemson-Duke game. And when I looked at his numbers going in, I didn't get it. Then I watched him play, and I got it. He toggles very well between his run skills and his pass skills and is really poised in big moments. There's something about his game that transcends numbers, but adding impressive number to his 'it' factor is the next stage of his evolution, particularly in the passing game. And that is what this summer is about.
Now to the specifics of your question. I like where CJ Carr is headed and I am not sure Riley is as accurate in throwing, But there are things he can do that CJ can't. If I had to make a prediction, and I really like the abilities and makeup of Steve Angeli and Kenny Minchey, I'd predict Leonard to be the starter on a playoff team this year and Carr to be the starter in 2025. If Leonard is healthy, I think Gino Guidugli and Mike Denbrock can evolve his passing game.
Frank from Royse City, Texas: I am back to my portal questions, who is ND targeting in the portal?
Eric Hansen: Hi Frank. Right now a cornerback and a punter ... and if there's an offensive tackle that's an upgrade, I think they'd consider that.
Don from Scottsdale: Thanks and it makes sense.
Eric Hansen: Appreciate you, Don.
James from Columbus: Eric, apologies if this question has already been asked and answered. I am joining late this week. Was Duece at the blue and gold weekend along with other recruits? I haven’t heard. Thanks!
Eric Hansen: James, it has not been asked, but yes he was there. And here's a photo from our guy, Jeff Douglas:
Larry from Topton, Pa.: Thanks for keeping the podcasts and radio hits going Eric! Very informative!! I was out of town Saturday, so I could not watch (or listen on WSBT to) the B/G game live. So, by the time I was able to watch on Sunday, I had already heard and read quite a bit about the game. From that reading and listening Saturday into Sunday, I was hearing superlative reviews of the ND offensive performance. But as I watched the game replay on Sunday, I was much less impressed with the ND offense, because it seemed to me that much of the offense’s success came at the expense of deep defensive backups. I know you did the game live on the radio Saturday, but did you get a chance to rewatch the televised version? If yes, did any of your impressions change at all, when seeing the game for the second time? As always, keep up the good work Eric (and Tyler)!!!
Eric Hansen: Larry, thanks for the kind words and the question ... You are on point, and we (the media) really were given a great advantage for our perspective in getting to watch the live scrimmage and the stadium the weekend before the Blue-Gold Game. In that game, we saw much more from the starters and key backups on defense and a lot of the bells and whistles on Al Golden's scheme ... and it was impressive. And the offense largely struggled against it, which is to be expected at this point. I have not done a rewatch, but plan to, but I think the scrimmage gave me a perspective that the fans didn't get to have ... but you really had good insight as to why the offenses looked better.
Steve from Fort Wayne, Ind.: It was reported that Notre Dame Administrators toured several program’s facilities for information gathering on plans for the new football building. Clemson was mentioned as one. Do you know any other? Also, will any other renderings be released? Thx.
Eric Hansen: Hi Steve. Clemson was indeed one, and I would think the others would be easy for me to track down. I will try to do so in the future and give those answers to you. I would imagine there will be some interior rendering eventually released as well, as much as ND is using this in their recruiting pitch.
Eric Hansen: OK, I've emptied out the queue. Thanks for all the great questions. We'll be back to do it all over again next Wednesday at noon ET.
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