Chat Transcript: Sizing up the growth curve for Notre Dame's linebackers
Eric Hansen: Welcome to a mid-July version of Notre Dame Football Live Chat.
Some quick programming notes:
► The chat will move back into weekly mode once training camp starts on July 31. It may not always be on Wednesday through training camp, due to practice/interview conflicts, but it will be weekly. In fact, the first week, we’ll probably do it on Saturday after three practices are in the books. I’ll definitely settle into a Wednesday routine in late August. If there’s a demand to do another chat next week, I’m willing to do one. Just let me know if you’re interested.
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► Taking stock of Notre Dame's wide receiver recruiting and where it's headed
► Notre Dame commit Christopher Burgess Jr. feels 'like family' with Irish
► BAS: Notre Dame SS Jack Penney drafted in the 5th round by Detroit
► Why OT Owen Strebig is an active recruiter for Notre Dame football
► Notre Dame's Irish Invasion helped 2026 QB Noah Grubbs confirm his decision
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► If you missed the last episode of our aspiring-to-be-viral Notre Dame Football YouTube show, Football Never Sleeps, it keeps its shelf life long after the live presentation. We are in a bit of an irregular pattern there until July 29, when we’ll move back into our normal Monday at 7 ET time slot. Right now we’re working around vacation time and guest co-host availability. The latest edition was Tuesday night with former Notre Dame O-lineman Bob Morton as my guest co-host. We’ll do another one together next week, likely Tuesday or Wednesday night, before Tyler James rejoins me the last week of July. Remember, if you miss the live show, you can catch up anytime on YouTube.
► No Inside ND Sports Podcast this week, with Tyler James on vacation. On the most recent Inside ND Sports Podcast, Notre Dame women’s basketball star guard Olivia Miles joined us. The 2023 All-American missed last season as she recovered from a knee injury, but she’s getting back in gear for a comeback year. She discussed the timeline of her recovery from the ACL injury, what she learned about herself while sitting out, scouting reports on newcomers Liatu King, Liza Karlen and Kate Koval, if she ever considered transferring, the keys to success in sharing a backcourt with Hannah Hidalgo, how head coach Niele Ivey helped her through this process, her confidence in her knee, how she's expanded her game and more. The podcast can be listened to via SoundCloud or on your preferred podcast platform including: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Podbean and Pocket Casts.
► Finally, we’re spinning forward into summer workouts for the Notre Dame football team as the entire roster is back on campus taking classes and working out. And Darin Pritchett and I are together this week on Wednesday and Thursday on Weekday SportsBeat (960 AM, live streaming at wsbtradio.com). The weekday shows run from 5-6 p.m. ET. You can download episodes as podcasts.
As far as this week's chat …
Please include your name and hometown along with your question(s).
Here are the rules:
Eric Hansen: I'm in such a good mood today that I'm not going to be a stickler on the no bare feet, no drinking or no gambling rules this week.
OK off we go.
Jonathan in Hideaway, Texas: Hi, Eric. Glad to see you back to hosting these excellent chats. Chatty Cathy ain’t got nothin on you. My question is about the linebackers. Lost a lot of tackles to the NFL draft. The returning cast lacks significant experience beyond grizzled vet Jack Kiser. They also tip the scales a few pounds lighter than Bertrand and Liafau, as I recall. Isn’t this position group nearly as worrisome as offensive tackle moving into fall and the opener at Kyle Field? Can you speak to why you do or do not have anxiety about the group’s role this season?
Eric Hansen: Hey Jonathan, thanks for being part of the chats ... and for the compliment and even for the Chatty Cathy reference, which I am unfortunately old enough to get. ... So your concern is linebackers, and on paper I can understand why. But in reality, having seen them in action in the spring and knowing the wave of elite athletes and camera-ready young prospects ND is getting at that position these days, I think the position group will be a strength. Part of that is Kiser's presence. He's going to be a force himself, but he's accelerated the learning curve for these young guys.
They're also getting outstanding coaching from Max Bullough, Al Golden and Marcus Freeman. And not having to learn a new system is huge. They've been able to retain what they've learned and can build on that and play fast. And when you look at how recruiting is going in the 2025 cycle in addition to the young LBs on the roster, this may be the start of a trend of outstanding Irish linebackers, not just individually, but in waves. I'm really bullish on this position group.
Sean from DC: Hi Eric! These chats are great, especially in the run-up to training camp. The Irish have done a nice job of augmenting their QB stable, receiver corps and defensive line via the transfer portal. Is there a generally accepted view that the transfer portal is more likely to work for certain positions than others, if a school is looking for an immediate contributor? Or does it depend more on the athlete's ability or system of the target school?
Eric Hansen: Thanks, Sean. I did a two-part series on how Notre Dame scouts and prepares for the entire transfer portal process. It's very thorough. Part II is premium, so if you're a subscriber, you can read them both. I've included the links to both. Let me post this and give you an answer more specific to your question.
Inside the Notre Dame football program’s seismic off-the-field evolution
Delving into the process that goes into Notre Dame's roster-building
First, Marcus Freeman wants to continue to have high school recruiting be the primary building blocks of team-building. And the hope/aim is for ND to get out of the annual transfer QB business. Some positions do lend themselves to the portal in ND's eyes, though. I would say Kicker and nickel. Beyond that, it's really based on need. If you look ahead to next year already, wide receiver may be a position where ND goes back to the portal. But ND director of scouting Matt Jansen has already started the process that will have the Irish well-positioned to know who and what they'll need in December.
Kagan from Angola, Ind.: Hello Eric, Hope all is well and you are getting excited as I am with Notre Dame football right around the corner! I believe fall camp starts July 31st, I was just wondering how much media access you will have and maybe you could give us 3 of the most exciting position battles to watch this fall? My three are the RT spot the Receivers with Faison being a full participant and Beaux Collins enrolled, will we see some movement there? And I think an underrated spot could be CB2 between Gray and Mickens. Finally, I want to ask about WR recruiting. We seem to be missing out on a lot of guys this cycle. How much of that is to do with Mike Brown, and how much can it be attributed to past Notre Dame offenses not featuring WR's? I think if Denbrock can improve our passing game this season to feature the WR more and maybe more big plays then Mike Brown could really take off next year with recruits, he seems to be a very good teacher but without any proof in pudding so to speak.
Eric Hansen: Hi Kagan. Doing great here, and I am excited about covering the team this season. ... Let's start with your position battles question. Some that might look like position battles are really timeshares — Jordan Faison and Jaden Greathouse at slot receiver, and Jeremiyah Love and Jadarian Price at running back are examples. Some of the position battles will turn into playing-time rotations that aren't as equitable. Some won't be rotations at all. Having said that, I see six true battles ... Right tackle, left guard, boundary receiver, vyper end, middle linebacker and the cornerback position you reference opposite Ben Morrison.
The three that excite me the most include two where I think the No. 2 player in the spring will overtake the No. 1. That is Aamil Wagner beating out Tosh Baker at RT, and Rocco Spindler overtaking Pat Coogan at LG. And for my third is one where they will be a rotation anyways, but I am curious to see how much Boubacar Traore can push for a larger share/role at vyper.
To your WR question. I did a really in-depth story on that yesterday that is premium for our subscribers:
Taking stock of Notre Dame's wide receiver recruiting and where it's headed
But let me at least give you a summary answer to your question that is popular in the queue today. For those not following recruiting closely, ND has two WRs committed in the class and would like to take four. Jerome Bettis Jr. and Elijah Burress are in. Tanook Hines, who chose USC on Monday, is out. Dylan Robinson announces his choice on Thursday, and Derek Meadows on Saturday. And there's a chance ND might not get either one. But even if they don't, I think ND is still trending well for the long term, and for some of the reasons you listed in framing your question. And the transfer portal sure makes those kinds of losses — if that indeed happens — sting a lot less.
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Len from the Jersey Shore: Hello Eric and thanks for hosting. CMF will be at the Jersey Shore at a luncheon on July 20 along with 10 players. The luncheon is co-sponsored by the four area clubs in the state. I will be there and I am looking forward to hearing him in person. I have heard so much about his ability to relate to a large or small audience. There will be 400 attendees, a sellout, at this event. There will be a short question and answer session. If Eric Hansen was there what would you ask him?
Eric Hansen: Hi Len. I think you'll have a great time. And since I get to ask Marcus Freeman questions fairly regularly, there aren't a lot sitting on the table for me. I had an opportunity last month to be part of a small group that got to ask lots of questions on and off the record, and it was great. ... Having said that, ii it were me in the role of my job, I'd want a health update, especially on Ben Morrison's shoulder (which was one of the questions asked on the record in June). If I were in your shoes, I'd want to know how ND will manage the legal paying of players and NIL moving forward and how they prioritize spending money on high school recruits vs. transfer portal players.
Paddy from Chicago: Great stuff on these chats; thank you Eric! As ACC coaches say Leonard is not as accurate as Hartman nor as good at the long game, and since Leonard is a good runner but not as electric as Buchner, what data is indicating he can be an elite QB this Fall (especially in light of a green O line). Question 2, given that O line, A&M's stout D line and Elko's familiarity with all things Leonard, at this stage how many games out of 10 again A&M would ND win this Fall in your opinion (if 10 were played ha).
Eric Hansen: Thanks, Paddy. But no thanks for a question that involves math haha. The question about Riley Leonard isn't so much about who he's been but who he can be. Heisman Trophy winner Jayden Daniels was regressing at Arizona State and had a pass-efficiency rating of 136.1 there in his final season at ASU. In his second year in Mike Denbrock's offense at LSU, he was a nation's past 208.0. I'm not saying Leonard will be over 200, but I do think he'll improve greatly over his career 131.7 rating. There are skills in which to build. As a runner, Leonard has a career average of 5.3 yards a carry with sacks baked into that and 6.1 last year on a bad ankle. He had 13 rushing TDs in 2022 over a full season. Only one QB in ND history has had the many or more rushing TDs in a season — Brandon Wimbush in 2017 (14).
I don't want to say Mike Elko's familiarity with Riley Leonard is a non-factor. But it's mitigated by Leonard playing for a different head coach, in a different offense and with a different supporting cast. And there's no film of any of that, since Leonard was held out of the Blue-Gold Game in the spring while coming back from ankle surgery. I can do that math on your “how many times out of 10” question, but my mind doesn't work that way. I probably overthink it. Because when they play a second time, for instance, all the blind-date elements are gone and maybe ND adjusts to the noise better than they did the first. What I can say is A&M gets ND's offense as a very unfinished product, but I think ND's defense is going to give that unfinished offense enough wiggle room to get a big road win.
Johngipp from Lititz, Pa.: Hey Eric, From triple digit temp Lititz. I feel the A&M game will be a landmark game for MF to start his third year. Will he overcome the road syndrome given Kyle Fields rep, 1st test of OL, Elko's 'D' mind and past intimate relationship with Leonard? A loss in this game would make for a precarious path to the playoffs given ND's schedule. Your thoughts? Supposing ND had Clemson's philosophy (no transfers) what would the lineup look like sans the transfers and what effect would it have on your season prognostication?
Eric Hansen: Hey John. I was in your state last week, though still quite a distance from where you are. I just predicted an ND win in my last question, and I haven't had any second thoughts. And yes, I do feel it will be very challenging, for some of the reasons you listed. I don't think it's make or break for the playoff. I think this is a game ND could lose and still make the playoff by running the table. But it gives them zero wiggle room for the two tough November games, against Florida State at home and USC on the road. Now to your transfer question, which is pretty intriguing …
Keep in mind if ND didn't bring in the transfers, some players might have stayed -- Clarence Lewis, for instance, at nickel. So at the positions I'm expecting a transfer to start, I'd put Steve Angeli starting at QB, KK Smith starting at field receiver, Clarence Lewis starting at nickel. If he transferred anyways, then Karson Hobbs. I'd have Adon Shuler in Rod Heard II's spot at safety, Josh Burnham in RJ Oben's spot at defensive end, Zac Yoakam at kicker, and I suppose Chris Salerno at punter.
Paul from Katy, Texas: Eric: How do I hide the Rivals250 Prospect Rankings, 2024 Team Rankings, Notre Dame Futurecast 2025 Top Targets, and Notre Dame 2025 Commitment List boxes that block the right half of my home page in the new Rivals format?
Eric Hansen: Hi Paul. I can't stand that either. So my advice is hang tight. Rivals has asked us for some customization suggestions for our site, and we're shrinking that box from four modules to two and actually changing what's in them. As we get further down the road, we'll be able to customize further. And we're told at some point, subscribers will have some control over customization. Thanks for asking and subscribing.
Ced Walker from Saginaw, Mich.: Aka sagnasty saginaw pride I’m really shocked and surprised that blue & gold illustrated football preview book pick notre dame to lose 17-14 to Texas a&m I know we must get out to a fast start playing on the road the key this game will be the offensive line and our defense here come the irish trust the process the golden standard rally we are nd god country go irish love thee notre dame our mother pray for us
Eric Hansen: Hi Ced. I have no control over a competitor's prediction. Not saying they're wrong, but they didn't consult with me, or apparently you either.
Kevin from Sleepy Eye, Minn.: Eric!!!! Let’s talk Loren Landow’s summer. Unless I missed: I haven’t seen much video of team workouts. With Balis we had these spirited team workouts that I enjoyed seeing. What have you seen? Is everything about science based training or is there team-building-guys giving all they got for their teammates type training???
Eric Hansen: Hey Kevin!!!! I have seen some videos and have seen spirited workouts, and it definitely is a different dynamic with Loren Landow as director of football performance from predecessor Matt Balis. What I can tell you, for better or for worse, is that the players have really bought in and embraced the approach.
Beaver from Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eric: The defense returned many draft-eligible and draft-worthy prospects who should contribute to a stellar unit for 2024. The offense went the other direction, losing several prospects to the NFL with remaining eligibility who could have arguably benefitted from another year in college. Is there a different feel on the defensive and offensive rooms contributing to this result? Or just where the pieces fell this year? It seems like the defense bonded as a group and each return announcement fueled momentum for others joining the deferral decision.
Eric Hansen: Hi Beave. I think it's more of how the pieces fell, but there are some layers to it, some of which you suggested. ND had continuity on defense and also players who could benefit draft-wise from another year and could be financially compensated through NIL to stay. Joe Alt didn't fit any of that. It's hard to imagine he'd get drafted higher. Now Blake Fisher, yes, could have come back. And maybe if he had a long bond with the O-line coach or continuity with an offensive coordinator, MAYBE the decision might have been different. But NIL money actually going forward will keep some guys in college for another year, or at least be a factor in their decisions to stay.
Roger from Munster, Ind.: Hi Eric. I hope all is well. Wondering if there have been any murmurs about the walk on WR Matt Jeffery, who is also a lacrosse commit I believe and was the #1 lax recruit nationally coming out of HS. Hoping he could be a sleeper athlete down the road and follow in the footsteps of Jordan Faison (admittedly easier said than done). Rooting for the kid and just curious to see if he has made an impression yet. Have a great rest of your week, go Irish
Eric Hansen: Hi Roger. Great here and thanks for asking. Matt Jeffery is a 5-11, 185-pound wide receiver, who — as you mentioned — is the No. 1 prospect in lacrosse in his class. He is a good enough athlete to be a factor down the road in football, as you mentioned, but not an immediate guy like Jordan Faison, in part due to ND's depth this year at WR as opposed to last year. He is on campus and working out with the team. The coaches have seen him in OTAs last month, but won't see him in an actual football setting until training camp starts on July 31. It is a big sacrifice for a player of that caliber to give up the fall lacrosse training season. Faison overcame that. Tyler Buchner would have a more prominent role next spring if he gave up football. He chose not to. But yes, I can't wait to see him on the field in a couple of weeks.
Marie from Atlanta: Hi Eric, I hope you have enjoyed the last several weeks and thanks so much for hosting the chat, it’s great that you’re back and that football season is not that far away. On a scale of 1 to 10 one being not worried at all and 10 being the house is burning down, how concerned are you about wide receiver recruiting? Why do you think the Irish are having such a tough time closing? Do you think they should’ve pushed harder for John Anthony Hall? Do you think good offensive play this fall might get some otherwise not interested wide receivers taking a look at Notre Dame? Potential flips, or late bloomers in high school. Worst case scenario they go 0-for-3 this week on wide receivers, who do you think they look at next? How much do you think they would use the portal next year to fill the wide receiver spot? As always, thanks for hosting the chat. We all appreciate your great insights.
Eric Hansen: Hi Marie. Good to hear from you and hoping to catch up with you soon outside of the chat. I remember I lost our NCAA men's tournament bracket bet. ... We hit on the WRs recruiting a little earlier with the link that I included for more depth. Let me hit these aspects one at a time. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'm going to go with a 3 after talking to longtime recruiting analyst Tom Lemming for the story. Tom is going to give it to me straight if a coach is lazy, or inept or struggling. Instead, he talked about how good of a recruiter Mike Brown has been ... and after a season of on-field production with him coaching WRs and Mike Denbrock leading the offense, closing on WRs will be a more successful endeavor. (And I am not writing off Meadows at this point). He also pointed to Mike Mickens' first cycle at ND and how it jumped dramatically in year 2 (Mickey and Morrison).
I like JonAnthony Hall as a football player and had a chance to see him play basketball and talk to him in person. ... They could still try to flip Hall later if they really like him. But I think Hines, Robinson and Meadows are all three better and it was the right move to prioritize them, whether the Irish get any of them or not. ... Yes on the offense this fall and the QBs waiting in the wings. ... If ND goes 0-for-3, they have time to recalibrate since there won't be official visits until fall. I think they'll expand their board, including potential flips, but the portal is the better avenue likely. Maybe a combination of the two. They'd like two more.
Beaver from Grand Rapids, MIch.: Eric: Is there any discussion of moving the winner of the RT battle (Wagner or Baker) to LT and moving Charles Jagusah to RT to lefty Leonard’s blind spot?
Eric Hansen: No, Marcus Freeman was asked that in June and he was adamant that would not happen.
Jack from Strongsville, Ohio: Hi Eric. Hope your offseason is restful. Because it is off season, here is a fun question for you. What would be your top three all time ND coaches across all sports. My 3 are Rockne, Leahy, and Muffet. Have a great rest of your summer.
Eric Hansen: Jack, I drove right past Strongsville on Sunday on my way back from vacation in Pa. ... That's a tough list to beat. Rockne has to be No. 1. And it's hard to argue with the national titles from Frank Leahy and Muffet McGraw. Some others I'd put in that conversation -- Ara Parsghian in football, Kevin Corrigan in men's lacrosse and Gia Kvaratskhelia in fencing with five national titles and 20 individual NCAA champs. ND has had some really good baseball coaches, though they don't have the national titles at ND to show for it.
Jim from Topsail: E-man! 4 questions for you: 1. I read that DC Golden runs a 4-3-4 and sometimes a 4-2-5 ... is he really that fast? 2. With the CFP now running into the second semester (most schools), what are the eligibility requirements for "students"? Do they have to be enrolled? 3. What is the criteria for first round CFP games on campus, specifically ticket allotments and revenue? Will it be managed like a typical home game or will the visiting team be treated as if it is a neutral site game, i.e. 50/50 with tickets and revenue. 4. If ND is selected as a first round host will ESPN utilize the NBC telecast infrastructure already in place? Thanks again for the chats and hope your responses don't require too much research on your part. Go Irish!
Eric Hansen: J-Man! 1. Haha. He was a college tight end ... but not THAT fast. Here's a link to Al Golden training in the weight room back during his playing days at Penn State. 2. Let me check on that, but I don't think that is the case. I think their eligibility is based on the fall semester. 3. It will be treated as a home game and not a neutral-site game. I plan to get more details as we get closer to the season. But all that was in the works when I had my one-on-one interview with new AD Pete Bevacqua back in the spring. 4. The first-round playoff games, to be clear, will be televised by ABC (1), ESPN (1) and TNT (2). I would think there are elements of that infrastructure they could use (camera platforms, etc.) and some they'd want to do on their own. ... And thank you.
Doug from Sunny Florida: Was Beaver suggesting Riley Leonard is left handed? Isn't he right handed?
Eric Hansen: I did not read the question correctly/thoroughly. I interpreted it as him just being curious as to whether, say, Aamil Wagner might be better at LT ultimately (and the media has speculated about this a lot). I did not metabolize the blind spot part of the question. But Riley Leonard is right-handed. So are all the other QBs currently on the roster. Deuce Knight, the QB commit in the 2025 class, though, is a lefty.
Ryan from Mars, Pa.: Good afternoon, Eric. With Camp starting in two weeks, will Mitchell Evans be full go for camp and when will we name the captains? Go IRISH
Eric Hansen: Hi Ryan, I was having this discussion about Mitchell Evans with Darin Pritchett on WSBT's Weekday SportsBeat. I think physically he'll be good to go. The wild card is the mental aspect. I cited two examples. Fellow Notre Dame right end Eli Raridon treated his ACL tear No. 1 like a boo-boo, but ACL 2 caused a delay in his mental readiness long after he was healed physically. And he's obviously good to go now. Olivia Miles from the ND WBB team, same deal. On our Inside ND Sports podcast, she talked about how much tougher the mental hurdles were than the physical ones. Having said that, I have not heard that Evans has hit that speed bump. ... I think we'll get captains named early in training camp.
Bryan from Los Angeles: Eric!! Is it as humid in South Bend in July as I'm remembering? Anyway, first time caller, long time listener. My real question: How do you see Riley Leonard getting used in the run game, specifically? The last few years we've seen QBs used in option plays with the RB where they rarely kept it (or at least Hartman never did). This never seemed to have a great deal of success, and that was about it for planned run plays involving the QB. With Leonard they have a very dynamic runner, though. How do you think Denbrock will use this weapon??
Eric Hansen: Bryan, definitely not a rookie-level question. Really compelling ... thanks. And I mean the football question. The humidity question was a good ice-breaker. ... Let me show you how Denbrock has used the QB in the running game in his nine consecutive years as an offensive play-caller. Let's start with DeShone Kizer in 2015 and 2016 at ND:
2015: 520 yards, 3.9 avg. 10 TDs
2016: 472, 3.7, 9 TDs
Hayden Moore, Cincinnati
2017: 312, 3.4, 4 TDs
Desmond Ridder, Cincinnati
2018: 572, 3.8, 5 TDs
2019: 650, 4.5, 5 TDs
2020: 552, 6.0, 12 TDs
2021: 365, 3.3, 6 TDs
Jayden Daniels, LSU
2022: 885, 4.8, 11 TDs
2023: 1,134, 8.4, 10 TDs
So, this really isn't about how well or not Sam Hartman or Tyler Buchner or Drew Pyne or Jack Coan ran the ball. This is about an elite running quarterback in a Mike Denbrock offense. Riley Leonard's 2022 season (when fully healthy) looked like this: 699 yards, 5.6 avg., 13 TDs. ... I think the total rushing yards and average are realistic this season. Leonard not only has speed. He has size and physicality, which really makes him tough to defend in the running game. The more he can advance as a passer, the more dangerous he becomes in the running game, because defenses won't be able to fully lean into defending that.
Joe from San Diego: Eric, you have done a good job of preparing us so far on the season--thank you!My question is what should we look for with A&M game?We know Elko is a very good coach,they have a good QB,and Jimbo did a good job in recruiting.The 12th man will be an issue,but would appreciate what your thoughts are at this time as I feel this will be a KEY game for us.
Eric Hansen: Thanks, Joe, I expect a low-scoring game for some of the reasons you mentioned. Marcus Freeman still has to prove this is a better team on the road than last year, but having an offensive coordinator who can counterpunch against a good or great defense is going to help a lot. So will Mike Denbrock's experience of having coached in that stadium and dealing with the noise there. My prediction of a Notre Dame win based on the team's snapshots now is by no means a slam dunk, but I do believe the Irish will prevail.
Beaver from Grand Rapids, Mich.: Sorry. My bad. Was watching the EA Sports simulation of the ND v USC game in the reflection on my work computer and got turned around. Everything is backwards. You can tell football season is near and I need my fix.
Eric Hansen: Beave, I am impressed that you are video game-savvy and not telling those who are playing that game to get off your lawn!
Eric Hansen: OK, that's going to do it for this week. Thanks for all the great questions. I'll probably skip doing a chat next week and instead get into weekly mode after training camp starts on Wednesday, July 31. Because we have practice access and interviews Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of that week, I'm going to pencil in the next chat for Saturday, Aug. 3. Chat with you then.
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