Chat Transcript: Does the Scott recruitment reframe ND's big picture?
Eric Hansen: Welcome to Notre Dame Football Live Chat from sweltering South Bend, Ind.
One quick announcement. I'll be returning to WSBT radio as a co-host with Darin Pritchett on Weekday SportsBeat (960 AM, wsbtradio.com) a couple of times a week during training camp and the 2023 Notre Dame Football season, beginning July 26. I'll also be co-hosting the pregame shows with Darin. Looking forward to it.
As for today's chat ... here are the rules:
Eric Hansen: A friendly reminder, PLEASE include your name and hometown along with your question(s).
Let's get started.
Tim from Kansas City: Eric, Thanks for your insight and levelheaded commentary. Wondering your reaction to the Justin Scott news given he is from a Catholic school in our backyard of Chicago. Does this reflect on the overall state of the defensive line and Coach Washington’s leadership? It seems like ND was routinely landing talent comparable to JS under Elston, but maybe it was just the lure of Beth’s cookies?
Eric Hansen: Hi Tim. The Beth Elston's cookie line made me chuckle. In full disclosure, they are as good as any chocolate chip cookies I've ever had. She and her daughters one made some for Tyler James and me ... and we ate them live on our podcast. ... To the Justin Scott question ... and there are scads of them today (and a few manifestos). ... Let me say off the top Notre Dame does not consider the recruitment to be over. If you're a subscriber, there's more detail on that in The Insider Lounge at insideNDsports.com. But what I can share is the Irish coaching staff is determined to flip him from his July 2 commitment to Ohio State. I don't think it's accurate to say Elston was landing elite interior defensive line talent comparable to Scott, but he did land outstanding edge prospects and he did a really good job of developing D-linemen regardless of star ranking. Scott is a five-star prospect and the No. 8 player overall in the 2024 class.
ND in the Rivals Era (2002-present) has yet to sign a five-star interior defensive lineman. Louis Nix, for one, was highly ranked but was a four-star and No. 85 overall and the No. 7 DT back in 2010, for instance. ... So how could ND let a Chicago kid from a Catholic school slip away? There was a lot of recency bias for Scott as he assessed his choices, with different schools rising to the top as he visited each one. In splitting hairs, OSU D-line coach Larry Johnson's track record of developing high draft picks seemed to be an important factor. I've said since the end of last season, ND D-line coach Al Washington has a lot to prove on the field with development and in recruiting in 2023. He still has a chance to make a statement in the fall. The Irish are counting on that with their ambition on flipping Scott.
Ron from Dover, Del.: Happy 4th of July. Hope you enjoy the day. Glad you are back doing the live chat. I only wish there was more good news to discuss. My question is do you have any insight on why Scott chose Ohio State ? Was it NIL, their coaching staff, or did he have a conversation during his visit with Styles. I don’t sense he left ND happy. Do you think this will impact Kyngstonn Viliamu-Asa‘s decision? Thanks for your thoughts.
Eric Hansen: Hey Ron. I explained some of it in the my last answer, but I wanted to expand on the NIL angle. I think there's a tendency, not just with the ND fan base but with others too, to assume NIL is the driving factor when the Irish lose a prospect or one decommits. In some cases, that is the case. In talking to people close to Scott, I don't believe it was a driving factor in this recruitment. I think more and more five-star prospects are MOST concerned with the generational wealth first-round draft picks command ... not that they're willing to take a vow of poverty while in school. Al Washington doesn't have the track record with NFL success that some of the others do at Georgia and Ohio State for example. I'm not sure Al Golden's scheme in year one was a recruiting game-changer, either. Could it be in year 2? ... that's the Notre Dame coaching staff's expectation. We'll see. I don't think Lorenzo Styles affected Justin Scott's decision.
Nor do I think Justin Scott's decision will necessarily affect LB Kyngstonn Viliamu-Asa's decision (he announces on July 23). I think Ohio State's staff probably feels the best about KVA, but Notre Dame is very much in play and I don't believe he's made his final decision yet.
Rui from Westchester, N.Y.: I’ve come to terms that ND is wayyyyy and i mean way behind on NIL after losing Justin Scott to Ohio St. You can not change my mind. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY does a kid of a Catholic school out of Chicago get away from ND…this is the kind of commit that we expected Freeman to get…can’t fully blame him but we need ton figure it out or else it’s gonna be the same thing year in year out and once we lost our top assistants/recruiters because of $$$ then we are back to square one. It’s gonna happen only a matter of time.
Eric Hansen: Rui, I only posted your manifesto because I know people are frustrated — understandably — and this is representative of what that frustration looks like. Since you're not open to my opinion, we'll move on.
Ken from Steel City, Pa.: I am concerned about the miss on Justin Scott. After last season’s class, I felt optimism in that ND almost had Keeley, Bowen, and Moore. This to me, was a step in the right direction. After this recent miss on Scott, I can’t help but feel deflated and am questioning whether ND can recruit at the level it takes to win a national championship. My question is: has Marcus Freeman simply raised the “floor” for Notre Dame recruiting? Sure, he’s swimming with the big fish and they have the 4 for 40 pitch, etc. but at the end of the day, what can be done to narrow the gap between Bama, OSU, UGA, and Clemson? It takes talent to beat and win playoff games consistently and it’s hard to beat OSU when they have multiple recruits better than your best one. Will Notre Dame make the necessary changes to improve recruiting and be a more legitimate contender? They have a fine line to walk certainly but they should walk it a bit quicker to narrow this gap.
Eric Hansen: Ken, I'm impressed by the way you framed this question. A tip of the cap to you. ... I'll start with I agree Marcus Freeman has raised the floor of Notre Dame recruiting ... with the potential to raise the ceiling consistently. But's important to remember he (and every other college coach) are breaching new territory with NIL. And its effects are shifting and will likely continue to evolve. But there's also recruiting via the portal and having to re-recruit your own roster every year that figure into this equation. I think he's very good at the latter and needs some help from the university for the former. If you haven't read my piece from last month Behind the scenes Marcus Freeman is living his 'Question Everything' mantra, I would suggest it. It may help answer some of your lingering questions.
Two points I'd like to make in addressing your questions. I talked to a very trusted and knowledgeable source recently regarding ND's NIL initiatives. I am convinced the Irish are competitive in the NIL space now without getting into "acquisition fees." The school does not do a good job of promoting its NIL prowess and that's by design. The feeling is recruits know and they'd rather not beat their chests about it beyond that. I'm not sure I agree with that approach.
I think the biggest obstacle to compete with the schools you mentioned is deepening the transfer pool for Notre Dame. The Irish are bringing in a record number in this cycle, including an impact quarterback, but realistically they're largely limited to grad transfers and players who finished their freshman season. Marcus Freeman is working hard to change that, and he feels like he's making progress. Above all, Marcus isn't going to dig his heels in and be stubborn about how he recruits, whether ND has a great cycle or a 'meh' one. He's committed to constantly evaluating and re-evaluating what the Irish can do better.
Don from Phoenix: Eric, Happy to hear you're back on the radio. While I'm disappointed with the Scott news I'm glad ND has been in the mix. As I used to tell my sales team you can’t start to win until you know why you lost. While the 5 stars have different reasons there is a common thread with the D linemen.....path to the NFL. Currently not in a state of panic but if DL recruiting stays the same one has to conclude the problem is with the "product" which is getting them to the next step. Venture to say position coaches spend more time with players than anyone on campus except the strength and conditioning team. If they don’t connect with their position coach, game over. 3 years ago ND couldn’t recruit CBs, now there is real competition. Same for running backs. CMF's next hurdle is making sure he has the right guys as assistants. You're closer to this than we are. What's your take regarding the assistants and Freemans management of them?
Eric Hansen: Don, you guys are killing it today. ... Couldn't agree more with the lead-in to your question. I think overall, Freeman has an outstanding recruiting staff, led by director of recruiting Chad Bowden. The guy is relentless, creative, and charismatic. Matt Jansen, the new director of scouting, has recently come aboard. Butler Benton, the new assistant athletic director for player personnel, is another key piece. But you're right, the assistant coaches have to perform to a high standard to make those other additions pay off. I think Freeman holds them to a high standard, but Al Washington at DL and Chris O'Leary (safeties) are two who have work to do to meet that standard in my opinion. I should note that O'Leary has done well with the transfer portal. I think we'll get a much more accurate gauge of OL coach Joe Rudolph in the 2025 cycle since he came aboard so late.
Matt from Salem, Ore.: After the WR decommit [Isaiah Canion] do you know of other targets? Do you think ND could land LBs [Bradley] Shaw and Viliamu-Asa?
Eric Hansen: Notre Dame is not in a hurry to reconfigure the WR board. They'll look at senior-year film and take their time. ... ND is very much in play for both of the linebackers you mention, but I don't think they lead for either at the moment. I don't think they will end up with both.
Bill from St Joseph, Mich.: Eric, great to have you back on WSBT Radio… you were seriously missed! For me this time of year can get one down because it seems that the principal news is recruitment and ND seems to lose more high 4 and 5 stars than they land, but I like shooting high and missing than not competing and not being in the hunt for them. I like to look at the entire postseason, and ND got the cream of the entire crop with the transfer of Sam Hartman!
Eric Hansen: Notre Dame will always want to build primarily via high school recruiting and development, but getting a transfer like Sam Hartman is absolutely critical to how the 2023 season will play out.
Marie from Atlanta: Hi Eric, I hope you enjoyed your Fourth of July. So glad that Chart is back. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being an unmitigated disaster, and 10 being the best recruiting year ever, where would you rank Notre Dame recruiting right now? Can you rank it overall and then give separate rankings for offense and defense. What do you think needs to be done to get out of the current tailspin? Although it is great that Deuce Knight is coming at the end of the month are you at all concerned that none of the other offered 2025 quarterbacks made it up to ND this summer ? Changing topics completely, I know you don’t care that much about apparel, but who would you like to see you get the deal and why, and who do you think will get the deal? As always, thanks for your great insights.
Eric Hansen: Marie, thanks it was great. Lots of time with the grandkids and great fireworks. They even cleaned up their messes without being asked. I almost fainted. ... I think the number feels lower for a lot of people, because of the expectation that Marcus Freeman would raise the ceiling. Based on classes dating back through the Rivals Era (2002-present), I'd say an 8 or 9. Based on the new expectations, I'd say a 7. Now if ND finished with Guerby Lambert, Kyngstonn Viliamu-Asa and flipped either DT Justin Scott or CB Kaleb Beasley, the number rises significantly.
I think people take CJ Carr and WR Cam Williams for granted. Carr could end up a five-star QB (and should be). Williams has that kind of potential as well. The RBs are outstanding. So the rating for offense is definitely higher at this point. I think ND's performance on the field in 2023 will have a significant effect on the 2025 class and perhaps how the 2024 cycle finishes. ... Ideally, it'd be great if ND could get another elite QB target to campus this summer, but getting Knight and being in his top two at the moment is significant. ... If I were picking the apparel group, I'd pick Nike. I don't think Under Armour lived up to its promises in the last contract of sport science innovation that would benefit Notre Dame.
James from Columbus: Hi Eric, just a quick note to say I’m very glad to hear that you will be back on SportsBeat with Darin. Looking forward to listening again.
Eric Hansen: Thanks, James. I'll have more details as we get closer, but when I'm on during the week, it will be in the 5 p.m. ET hour with shows available to download in a podcast format.
KJ from near the Channel Islands: Is Donovan Hinish going to be as big a contributor as his brother ? Kurt surpassed all expectations, and given our inability to recruit top talent, we need some of our guys to out perform their profile? Is this a realistic hope for Donovan? (Or others on our D line for that matter.) Thanks for all your insights!
Eric Hansen: Hi KJ. The coaching staff loves Donovan Hinish and he's off to a promising start. He's not yet in the heavy rotational kind of reps yet, but is pushing to get in that mix.
Frankie from Virginia: Hello Eric!! How are you doing and how was your long weekend?? Curious I ask you question do you have heard about new contract of uniform Under Armour, Nike, Adidas, Jordan?? About national TV rights?? I hope they should stay with NBC. Need more money, own brand Notre Dame football?? Thank you.
Eric Hansen: With Tyler James and Charleston Bowles on some much-deserved vacation, my long weekend was short, but it's all good. The new apparel contract decision is supposed to be announced this month, and is apparently down to Under Armour and Nike, with UA the perceived leaders. NBC would be the favorite to retain the media rights to ND football broadcasts, but that's not as imminent as the apparel deal.
Andrew from Cincinnati: Hi Eric, thanks as always for taking the time here. It's been discussed at length by you all and fans alike, but it seems the three major hinderances with Notre Dame recruiting that keep them from top-five(ish) classes are: NIL, transfer requirements and undergrad admissions standards. For the Irish to be semi-consistent title contenders in the future, how would you rank those three items from most to least important to fix/amend, and how likely would you say the university and athletic department are to give way on some of those aspects of recruiting? Thanks!
Eric Hansen: Hi Andrew, and thanks for being here. ... In the 2023 cycle, I would have ordered them as follows: 1) NIL, 2) Transfer Requirements, 3) Undergrad admissions standards. ... In the 2024 cycle, I would put the transfer requirements way out in front by a sizeable margin, 2) NIL, 3) Undergrad admissions standards.
Jeff from Phoenix: Good morning Eric from the blistering Southwest. The impetus for my question is a recent Rivals article on the recruiting situation of 2025 OL target Owen Strebig. When he was asked about his impressions of each of his top schools, he said that USC coach Lincoln Riley pitched that Owen would have the advantage at USC of playing in the same offense and for the same head coach for his four years. I was frankly stunned to read this. So my question – Is ND considered an unstable coaching environment and is this a general tactic that other schools are using against Notre Dame for 2024 and 2025? Am I missing any important context of this coach/recruit interaction or is "all fair in love/war/recruiting"? Thanks much.
Eric Hansen: Oh so you're going to one-up me on the heat index, Jeff? We're at 87 going up to 90 ... then I looked at your weather ... 101 going up to 106. I can't even count that high. Yikes. ... I just traded messages with Owen Strebig before the chat. He's coming back for a visit on July 30, which is the date of Notre Dame's cookout recruiting event. Impressive young man, who's No, 78 overall and ascending fast. I think you might be parsing his comments too closely. He's looking for positive things to say about ALL his contenders. Notre Dame could tout continuity as well after this season with a first-year offensive coordinator and a first-year offensive line coach. Long way to go, but follow the visits. They're more telling than soundbites.
Kevin-Sleepy Eye: Eric!!!! Let’s talk team offense. I looked at last year’s stats. I’m trying to get some realistic expectations for this fall. How much better should we be? We averaged 31pt/game and 396yd/game last year. The Georgia-OSU-AL teams are all over 40pt/game and over 470yd per game. Can we come near that?
Eric Hansen: Kevin!!!!!! Let me preface my answer with some context. The modern school records for points and yards per game are: 37.6 (1968) and 510.5 (1970), respectively. And ND took dips in both last season, falling from 45th to 59th nationally in total offense and 19th to 41st in scoring offense. So ... no, I do not think they will be over 40 points a game and 470 yards for a few reasons, one of which is that they play an inordinate number of good defenses in 2023 -- or at least teams that were good defensively in 2022. They play six teams in 2023 that finished 31st or better in total defense and four that were top 12 in rushing defense. In 2022, they played four teams with total defenses ranked 31st or better and five that finished the regular season 93rd or worse. I DO think ND will be improved offensively with Sam Hartman at QB, an elite O-line, deep RBs and an exciting young WR corps.
Dave from DC: Hi Eric, keeping with the recruiting theme of today's chat, fans are disappointed whenever a Notre Dame commit decommits and moves on to another school. But ND is no stranger to flipping recruits on their behalf. Does the staff maintain contact with recruits who are committed elsewhere (assuming the recruit is open to it)? Do they keep a list of players/potential flips that they may want to reestablish contact with, in the event the Irish board doesn't shake out the way they hoped?
Eric Hansen: Hey Dave. I've tracked decommits both ways from the start of the Brian Kelly Era (2010) and ND is way ahead on both quantity and quality over the years. Yes, the staff continues to recruit top-of-the-board prospects that it likes provided they are open to the contact and there's still room in the class for them. Justin Scott (OSU) and Kaleb Beasley (Tenn.) would be the two who qualify in this class.
Edward from Gerogia: What happened to all the talk about CJ Carr earning his fifth star? He is without a doubt one of the best Q.B.s in the 24 recruitment, and in my opinion, better than some of the five stars that have received their fifth star.
Eric Hansen: Edward, in Rivals' latest 2024 prospect rankings, CJ Carr was the No. 21 player in the 2024 class, the highest ranked player with four stars. In other words, the top 20 at this point are all five-star prospects. At the end of the cycle, there will be 32. So as long as Carr plays well this season, it's reasonable to assume he'd end up in the top 32 and get a fifth star.
Rick from the OC: Any chance ND looks at the junior college ranks for DL recruits? How would they figure into ND recruiting/transfer portal picture?
Eric Hansen: If they can't get sophomores and juniors with 4.0 GPAs through the doors from four-year schools, JUCOs are out of the question. But ND can peruse the regular transfer market next December/January.
Guest: Greetings Eric, hope you've had a nice summer so far. In a recent article, Brian Kelly was quoted as saying that the fundamental reason that he left Notre Dame was because the administration wasn't providing his student athletes with the necessary resources they needed to compete at the highest level. In your opinion, does Kelly's claim have any validity whatsoever? Thanks much.
Eric Hansen: Thanks. Guest, please do the name/hometown thing next time? Let me preface this that I had a very good relationship with Brian Kelly and enjoyed covering him, but I think that narrative from BK is misleading. I've already litigated this several times, so I'm not going to go into great detail again today about why I think he left. What I will say is that it was a fight for BK constantly to get what he thought was best for the program and he was up to the task. He deserves credit for that. ND was better off for him being here. But the way he left was sloppy at best and the narrative about resources being the reason not only isn't entirely true in my opinion, it puts Marcus Freeman in the awkward place of picking up those pieces.
Frank from Royse City, Texas: How can ND compete with the National Powers when they can’t recruit in their backyard?
Eric Hansen: It's a bad look, Frank. But they did recruit Cam Williams from their back yard and Brauntae Johnson, took CJ Carr's from Michigan's backyard and its coaching tree. They will continue to recruit Scott. I do think Chicago is an important hotbed for the Irish, and I expect a resurgence in that area in the coming cycles, at least in effort if not in results.
Todd from Medford N.J.: Just a quick 1 for you. Will either Thomas Harper start at nickel or Carter at safety?
Eric Hansen: Both scenarios are possible. They'll have to earn that in training camp, which opens in roughly three weeks. If they don't start, they will both play a lot if healthy.
Matt from Santa Rosa Beach, Fla.: Any idea if Kahanu Kia is planning to come back to ND after his mission? Would that be for the '24 season if so? His addition would basically be like adding another DL/edge piece in the current recruiting class.
Eric Hansen: From everything I've heard, that is his plan, but my plan is to talk to Kahanu Kia directly this summer and catch up with him. Yes, he would rejoin the team in January of 2024 in time to enroll for spring semester.
Len from the Jersey: Hello Eric, And a Happy Independence Day to you, the staff and their families. May we celebrate this great country in peace and harmony. Well we lost another 5 star D lineman. I am sure you will cover the reasons for this particular case. What have you heard about NIL collectives losing nonprofit status per the IRS decision (contributions will no longer be tax deductible) and the expected effect on NIL in the future? Will these collective just be rebranded in a way that meets IRS guidelines? Or will sanity return to college football?
Eric Hansen: Len, that news came out around a week ago, and I'm not sure I have been able to fully wrap my head around it. ... I would not equate this as a step toward bringing sanity back to college football. I think the best, maybe only way, to do it is through an act of Congress, although I do think there is some "self-correction" going on.
Dave, Ponte Vedra, Fla.: Great to have these chats back. In light of Scott joining last year’s five-star defections, is it even reasonable to expect ND to land one of these elite players without payment up front? These five-star players know their value on the open market and I question whether the NIL system employed by the Irish will entice them to South Bend. I like how we do it, but have my doubts about its effectiveness.
Eric Hansen: Thanks, Dave. I think your doubts are shared by many others. What I can tell you for sure is if NIL as an acquisition fee is the driving force in a player's recruitment, Marcus Freeman does not believe they will be a fit at ND and they won't pursue him. Now if they are looking for other things and want ND to be competitive in the NIL space, that's realistic, and I think CJ Carr is an example of that. There are others in the 2025 class as well. One thing to keep in mind, Miami and Texas A&M are two of the programs most associated with the corrupted version of NIL. And how did they do last year? NIL is a significant piece. But it's not the only piece.
Norris. Singer island, FL: Thank you for your candid appraisal of Notre Dame sports. Three questions. You and your staff are very detailed in providing the abilities and their thought process of each Notre Dame football recruit. However, one key ingredient seems to be missing: the NIL (recruiting) money, that is being offered by each college, including ND, to the particular individual. Perhaps that is never knowable. But. for most prominent recruits, doesn’t the absence of that factor skew, compromise, and make irrelevant all your other evaluations … please tell me I’m wrong? Second, does ND Itself have a policy regarding how much recruiting money they will pay to a recruit and should that policy be made public? Third, why has ND and MF seemingly given up recruiting football prospects from the north east, particularly the Catholic high schools ofNew Jersey, from which many of their recent starters have been recruited?
Eric Hansen: Hi Norris, thank you. Let's get to these one at a time. 1) You will never get accurate full disclosure from ND or any other school -- not consistently. There is a recruiting service that purports to estimate NIL value. I have seen criticisms of it that those numbers are WAY off and that it actually builds false expectations with some prospects. 2) No I don't agree that the absence of a price tag makes all the other evaluations meaningless. I think you're WAY underestimating ND's competitiveness in the NIL space (and for good reason, because they don't care to correct that perception to anyone but recruits and their parents). And NIL isn't prioritized the same by every recruit.
You said "please tell me I'm wrong." Wish granted. ... 2) The collectives and market drives the ceiling of NIL money and if the player wants to talk about it, they will. We didn't talk money, but in a 1-on-1 with Audric Estimé, that I plan to turn around for a story later this month, we had fun talking about the different ventures in which he's involved. ... ND and Marcus Freeman haven't given up the Northeast. They had two Mass. kids and one NJ kid in the 2023 freshman class and are trying to reel in Mass. OL Guerby Lambert for 2024. Lots of offers in both the 2024 and 2025 classes for kids in the Northeast.
Bob Loganville, GA: From following the Justin Scott recruitment rarely, did I hear Al Washington and Al Golden's name pop up in the recruitment. Initially in January I heard TR went over to watch a basketball game or 2, then I was hearing MF and CB was visiting. But nothing from the DL and DC coaches. Was this a situation where the DL and DC coach wasn't recruiting him as hard as the competition? Based off the ranking ND was not in his top 3 (Miami, GA and MI).
Eric Hansen: Bob, not sure if you're reading bad info elsewhere or just missing the stuff we're putting out, but Al Washington was and is very involved in that recruitment. At various times each of his five finalists led, but when he made his announcement, I'd say it was 1. OSU, 2. Michigan and 3. ND ... all ahead of Georgia and Miami.
Rich from Melbourne, Fla.: Eric, love the chats. One Q given all the talk surrounding ND’s participation in it via FUND…exactly or approximately how does it work? If you’ve written on this before attach the link. and as always thanks
Eric Hansen: Hi Rich. I love the chats, too, especially today's. Thanks for loving them too. I have written extensively on it fairly recently. I am including the link.
Eric Hansen: Eamonn from Oswego, couldn't get to your very deep dive, multi-part question today (and several from others). Maybe I can work on that in advance for next time.
Eric Hansen: That's going to do it for today. Thanks for all the great questions. I may do one more chat before training camp starts later this month, then we will be in weekly mode once it does for the duration of camp and the regular season.
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